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Post by Alexander THE GIRL on Jan 30, 2009 3:35:55 GMT -5
Technically Shinra is already sucking the planet a little bit. Midgar is, after all, powered by eight Mako reactors, and Junon is—or rather was—powered by one. Junon's has apparently shorted out, though.
Anyways, I don't think the reactor would need to be big, it would just need to be equipped to deal with the pressure built up inside the planet due to overflow. That is, unless you wanted to take advantage of the current huge surplus of Mako. Then you would need to build a big one or a lot of them, especially to make up for losing the ones that powered the rest of the FFVII world.
In addition, it's probable that there's a (relatively) thin layer of pyreflies outside the world's Lifestream that make up whatever's left of the—now quite flooded—Farplane. The reactors might cause unforeseen problems there, or it might suffer complications itself, or it indeed might actually help the world if it can stabilize the world's Lifestream to normal levels.
As far as resources go, it's true that Shinra has way less than they used to, but for all it's worth they do still have Midgar and all it has to offer. Well, except the top two floors of the Shinra tower. That makes them the second most powerful force in FFI (by a long shot now that Bevelle is out), and the most powerful undivided one. In that sense, they could run around theoretically unopposed while setting up reactors and expanding their influence.
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Post by Tseng on Jan 30, 2009 3:58:59 GMT -5
The implications of what you just suggested are staggering. Would the Farplane be connected directly with the Lifestream or would it be considered a separate entity altogether? If the Reactors can shunt power away from the Farplane, I would hazard a guess that sinspawn would probably end up targeting the place like no tomorrow as those reactors aren't exactly the safest things (open air with Mako below that you could possibly fall into, reminds me of the Jungle). The theory is based on the fact that the pyreflies of the sent might get drained out of the Farplane which would technically make them unsent (this definitely falls into the category of theory). Again, it is only a guess but that could mean quite a bit of trouble for ShinRa in the foreseeable future. Also, does ShinRa still have contact with their resources in Costa del Sol and Junon? If they do then what would the likelihood be that they have access to their naval forces which included submarines? A final question (I promise I will stop asking them constantly eventually) does this mean that ShinRa still has access to a large compliment of Soldiers of all ranks (you know the unnamed ones you get to mow throughout the game ).
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Post by Alexander THE GIRL on Jan 31, 2009 0:42:21 GMT -5
Pyreflies don't seem to be effected by gravity, so a simple pump probably wouldn't extract them. However, they might emerge on their own if you dig far enough. Since the extraction and processing of the life-blood of the planet is a pretty epic supernatural happening, and pyreflies seem to make their home in places like that, it's not impossible that some of the more powerful fiends would end up drawn to the reactors. However, those who have been to the farplane have already been sent, so they've probably accepted death enough that they wouldn't become fiends. It seems like Bevelle is the place most likely to have extremely...powerful...
...Hmm...
Come to think of it, all those unsent pyreflies of brutally murdered fanatic religious people in one place can't be the start of anything good. That could create a fiend of monstrous proportions. Sin monstrous.
Anyways, I'm not really certain how many SOLDIERs existed to begin with. I know they're normal enemies in FFVII, but they're never actually seen in the story outside Sephiroth and Zack, which I always found curious. I've always been under the impression that the SOLDIERs aren't as numerous as they used to be by the time of FFVII. It's peacetime by then, after all, and making new SOLDIERs seems to be fraught with complications. But then, it's unlikely that Shinra would ever disband them completely, and I highly doubt they were all killed by Cloud, so let's say there's a few left. Maybe 200 3rd class, 75 2nd class, and two dozen 1st class. Something to that effect seems right. The 1st class are great, of course, but not Sephiroth great.
For the record, I suppose it's up in the air whether the ninth Midgar reactor introduced in DoC exists. Deepground's base and Deepground as a whole doesn't exist in FFI, but I suppose it stands to reason that there might be a reactor under Shinra headquarters.
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Post by Tseng on Feb 1, 2009 19:08:53 GMT -5
Speaking of Sin and other things that go bump in the Final Fantasy night, what do you think would happen were someone to awaken the Weapons buried in the ice? Wouldn't it be grand to see Sin and the Weapons go at in a Godzilla style contest of epic proportions? I would be interested to see if they even considered each other a threat. Hm... the thought is interesting to say the very least.
As for SOLDIERs, the estimates sound good to men though that force alone definitely wouldn't allow for a large operational theatre right now. I'd wager that if ShinRa's supply of SOLDIERs is hovering around that number then they definitely would have trouble holding both Junon and Midgar (considering that the distances between the two might not be the same day to day). Granted, the mooks at the bottom would probably be good enough to maintain guard posts but with the aforementioned possibility of attacks from alternate realities, the possibility that a standard mook would be much help is relatively slim.
The ninth reactor would be an interesting plot hook if it does exist especially if none of the Turks (I don't know if any other ShinRa character is in play) knew about it. The result would interesting especially if strange and unusual readings were coming from beneath the building and no one knew what they were. Discovery of extra resource could be fraught with all sorts of consequences. In either case, I'd wonder if Sin could reform and if so who be at the core?
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Post by Xenos on Feb 17, 2009 10:30:09 GMT -5
Mmmm... I need to comment on some of this so that we don't get too out of hand. Because of all the complications that could occur, Aerith and I talked about some tentative limitations. There is Sinspawn, but not necessarily Sin. Because we're implementing the Mist as a form of source for the Sinspawn, there's no need to further complicate things with Sin. See, if there was a Sin, there could possibly be a Jecht at the same time, or if we didn't allow that, a Jecht could take advantage of being both and it would be problematic. I don't think that we entirely counted it out, in case of massive plot device, but for now don't count on Sin.
I think we were also thinking about using Sin as a way for Tidus to come defeat Xenos (Since Xenos charged him with being the one to kill him) but I think we decided that it would be too much trouble trying to decide who would be Sin and how it would go down. So, for now, don't count on it, either.
I would wager that the Farplane is it's own Lifestream. It doesn't mix with the Lifestream of other planets, unless FORCED there. That's why it would be necessary to have a powerful ShinRa to do anything more with the reactors in Midgar than they already have. If they managed to compress Pyreflies with Lifestream or perhaps the Iifa tree stuff, then you could make materia of possible catastrophic nature. Who knows if you could control it at all, since the whims of humans aren't to be messed with. If ShinRa confined a Pyrefly into materia, then the power of the Materia would greatly expand but could possibly be unchecked and backfire at the user. It's an interesting theory, but we would need higher-ups.
I would, too assume that the Soldiers are still around, just majorly decreased in numbers. From what I've gathered-- and correct me if I'm wrong!-- All members of Soldier were treated with Mako and tested for mental stability before being accepted into the program. This is why Cloud never made it in. However, it goes unsaid as to whether or not all Soldiers had their brains tested for the instability the MAKO would cause (obviously a problem as you can see when Cloud and Tifa fall into the Lifestream) or because they're being tested for computability with Jenova injections. That would explain the sheer number of "clones" at the Reunion. If we decide to go on the latter as being the case, there will certainly be a lot fewer Soldiers around simply because of the Reunion massacre.
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Post by Tseng on Feb 17, 2009 11:14:03 GMT -5
Thank you for the wealth of information that was provided. I will say that I hadn't quite considered the full implications of compressing pyrflies into Materia. The most I considered was that you'd end up with a strange version of a summon (based on my understanding of the Final Fantasy 7 and 10 Summoning systems). Honestly, I doubt Tseng would even consider the possibility if he was presented with it. Even with the resources of ShinRa at his disposal, the situation isn't quite stable enough at ShinRa tower.
As for the number of Soldiers remaining, keep me posted as to a reasonable estimate. I don't plan on initiating plan double theta and pressing the red button. However, it is nice to know what is going on around you at any one moment when dealing with a massive, aggressive, semi-militaristic, and highly materialistic group like ShinRa. The reduction in the number of Soldiers of all classes due to the Reunion would be quite the loss for the organization, but then again, the disappearance of the entire administration staff also leaves one in an awkward position.
For now however, would it be remiss to assume there are at least three or four Soldiers of some variety running around secure sections of the Tower?
In addition, what is the status of the Reactors? Does anyone know if they are in any sort of critical condition still (especially if they are the ones from directly after the Sister Ray attack)? Oh and does anyone remember the Ray at all or do they remember it only when the thing phases back into view?
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Post by Xenos on Feb 17, 2009 11:29:17 GMT -5
Yeah, sure! You can go ahead and have a couple in the HQ. I think that's entirely reasonable. It really depends on the reactor. The Junon reactor is all smashed to pieces underwater, but it seems the Midgar ones are working relatively well. I think I need you to fill me in a little bit about what happened with the first run of the Sister Ray. I don't remember anything going wrong with the reactors after that.... Um... the reactors are largely able to function on their own with only a minor need for occasional maintenance, so I would assume they're fine. Just keep in mind that not all of the places exist anymore, so if ShinRa has security cameras in some of the places, they won't be working (obviously). At first I just thought about the summons, then I thought about what Wakka or Khimari would do if they were dead and caught in Materia and all I could imagine was something going terribly wrong. Certain people would know no better than to go along with it, like with Seymour's mother being Anima, but there are some who have a strong enough will to fight back. It would be entertaining to experiment with, but we'd need someone much less ethical than Tseng to head up the research. Say, if we had a Hojo or a Rufus. Still, that would be entirely up to the player and hashing things out with the rest of us.
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Post by Alexander THE GIRL on Feb 17, 2009 17:01:24 GMT -5
The Sister Ray sucked so much energy out of the reactors that it blacked out the city the first time it fired. I think Tseng is asking if they were damaged after being overworked like that. I wouldn't imagine so. Any damage they'd sustained would probably have been fixed to keep the city running long before Tseng reappeared.
On the subject of pyreflies, I'd like to randomly point out that fiends, Unsent, Aeons, and Sin are comprised entirely of pyreflies. This means that for a person with a strong enough will, pyreflies can be controlled much more intricately and permanently than materia, to the point where you can just order them to make you a new body, a weapon, or servant creature. The only problem is that everyone seen with the capacity to manipulate pyreflies is either dead or a summoner, and even then summoners can only do it to Send things.
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Post by Tseng on Feb 18, 2009 3:10:30 GMT -5
Alex, you beat me to the punch. Yeah, I was curious about what happened after the blackout, but I had forgotten how long Infinity was running before I got here. It would make sense for them to be repaired by now though even without leadership. Everyone can agree that power is vital for the smooth operation of Midgar. As for the cameras, I'm curious as to how many are still operational at with every world crisis that has happened thus far. I'm especially interested in the extension of the train lines into foreign cities and how many are running non-stop now. The subject of Pyreflies though is intriguing the player and would probably bother/disturb Tseng on some level. The creation of weapons from the life energies and memories of the dead would pose a serious threat to the security and safety of Midgar. It would however give anyone (living) who could manage it a serious boon in these troubled and uncertain times. Really, the idea of turning the Farplane into a weapons factory would drastically alter the balance of power between the soon to be competing city-states (at least, I figure once the dust settles politics will resume).
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Post by Alexander THE GIRL on Feb 19, 2009 5:34:29 GMT -5
I'm not sure how many cameras still work. I hadn't thought about it, and I'm not really remembering any cameras off the top of my head, so you'll have to wait for Xenos to clarify.
I can only imagine that, while the train tracks are all connected, nobody actually takes the trains outside their regularly scheduled stops. Someone with the guts to take a train out for exploration is just begging to crash. You would probably need to assure the person controlling the train that going down those new tracks will not lead to a violent death, and that it's part of a new schedule or something. Then you would need to hope and pray that nobody had the same idea you did. It was really only an option to Fujin, since nobody was around to tell her to not drive the train herself. Of course, Fujin opted for the monster apocalypse haunted train tunnel crash site scenario, so Balamb is officially off-limits via train until that tunnel is cleaned up.
I hope Tseng would be aware of the karmic irony of that sentiment.
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Post by Tseng on Feb 19, 2009 9:35:53 GMT -5
Yeah, I'd rather avoid that particular sort of accident. In any event, the use of the trains wouldn't be as reliable as the helicopter anyways right now. At least with the copter, you can see trouble coming before it reaches you.
What is the likelihood that ShinRa would have knowledge of the Junon Reactor going offline? Would they have any information about what is going on in Junon at all? If so would it be okay for me to request a summary of those events as I'm actually not sure about it myself. Oh and on that note, what would the status of ShinRa's ocean going fleet be? Do we have any submarines or cargo ships left going to and from Costa del Sol?
Oh and yes Tseng would indeed be aware of that karmic irony.
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Post by Xenos on Feb 19, 2009 10:20:49 GMT -5
Alex: There weren't any cameras I can think of, either, but I can imagine that ShinRa WOULD have cameras at their sites and that's how they knew what was going on before Reeve and Cait Sith joined up. I would assume that he had a camera on the party, himself but that ShinRa would have some at the reactors. The technology is there-- they have TVs and a news station, so I'm sure they could have video cameras. Well, I can imagine that there could be a cargo ship, but the submarines are all out of commission because of the collapse of the underwater reactor where all of the subs were stored. What happened was Xenos and co. was pursued by Aerith, Rinoa, Squall, Cloud and a handful of others, I think... and Kefka (this is fun, since he did this without double checking he COULD and that it wouldn't interfere) blew up the elevator while Evrae Altana attacked the reactor from above. Ultimately, Evrae Altana (was killed by Tiamat?) and destroyed the reactor, causing the main Hero party to think Squall was dead when they kidnapped him.
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Post by Seltzer Grenadine on Feb 19, 2009 15:16:32 GMT -5
...and Kefka (this is fun, since he did this without double checking he COULD and that it wouldn't interfere)... Not our current Kefka, just to clarify. >.>
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Post by Xenos on Feb 19, 2009 16:17:58 GMT -5
Hrrp drrp. It was all Ash. Don't let her fool you!
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Post by Seltzer Grenadine on Feb 19, 2009 16:46:32 GMT -5
I'm a bad man!
By the way, did you get that thing I sent ya?
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